November 21st, 2008

Integrity, but only when we chose

Posted in The Job - Comment by 200

It’s taken under 24 hours for a force to suspend an officer for alleged membership of the BNP. In 2004 ACPO decided to ban police officers from membership of the British National Party, citing that it would be bad for race relations for a police officer to be such a member.

So it has been prohibited to be a member of a perfectly legal political party. My understanding is that this has never been challenged in court. I guess those who would benefit from such a challenge don’t want to lose their jobs to make a political point. I don’t know much about human rights, to be fair, in most cases I think the Human Rights Act does nothing to protect those who need protecting. But I would love to see this ban challenged in court. If I turn up for work, treat everyone fairly & don’t break any laws who is anyone to tell me what I should think or believe?

I have no desire to belong to the BNP but I bloody-well demand the right should I so choose.

It’s interesting that the ACPO policy is basically an issue of morality (since it is not one of illegality). Compare this with the illegal publishing of people’s names & addresses (Theft of the document & Data Protection Act) and ACPO actively encouraging forces to go & look at an illegal document to find out if any of its officers are on the list. And they say integrity is non-negotiable?

Examples of corruption amongst freemasons are legion. How many examples are there of masons using their position to grease the slippery promotion pole, or to get away with the odd offence or indiscretion here or there, or allow friends to do the same. Incompatible with being a police officer? Certainly. I’ve not heard of any calls for police membership of the masons to be outlawed. Funny, that.

The sooner ACPO & the legislators gets back to policing & lays off social engineering, the better this country will be.

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  1. Blueknight says:

    One of the points I have been making is that the document has been obtained dubiously, if not unlawfully. There have been rumours that extra names and addresses have been added to it and its integrity must be in doubt.
    Banning anyone from simply being a member of any political party in a so-called democracy is a very dangerous step to take. If the Govt think the BNP is so bad, why don’t they proscribe it?

    November 21st, 2008 at 02:49

  2. officer dibble says:

    This whole issue has in a lot of ways been brought to the fore by the leaked list.
    The BNP whatever you may think of them are a legal legitimate political party.A party you can lose your job for, not just by being on a list but by wearing a badge.

    November 21st, 2008 at 03:47

  3. john says:

    November 21st, 2008 at 09:37

  4. john says:

    Wrong button…
    Seems that belonging to a political party may be wrong then…..
    Would he have been dismissed if he had been a tory councillor bussing labour supporters ?
    Sad country…

    November 21st, 2008 at 09:40

  5. Alpha Tango says:

    30 years ago, I read a northeastern joke book and remember several very well, and I’m showing my age. Seems pertinent to government’s, ACPO

    A Labour candidate was campagning for the forthcoming election and had gathered a crowd around his soap box in a deprived area.

    When elected life will be great, pointing to a young couple he said” You will be driving around in a Rolls Royce” The crowd cheered.
    He then turned to a male and said” Remember those famouse cigars Winston Churchill smoked? you will have boxes of them”
    The crowd cheered wildly whereupon the male said ” But I dont smoke”
    The candidate replied
    ” Shut up, you will do what you are told when we are in power”
    If I can dig out the book from somewhere I will post the title but its true for any doubters.
    I have thought for several years that ACPO should be disbanded, it seems a self serving club for those who are totally distanced from the reality of policing. Future members get their training on the smt.
    Great site 200, please keep things going when your time is up

    November 21st, 2008 at 12:12

  6. James says:

    Whilst I don’t agree with the BNP and have no doubts as to their true aims, they are a legitimate party. And are best kept legitimate where we can see them.

    If people loose their jobs over party membership we set a dangerous precedent. In Iraq and Nazi Germany you more or less had to be member of the ruling party to have a place in society.

    What happens if someone else is in power and only wants their people in the police and other organisations. The BNP have stated they want in on the police assembly elections. We have a Labour government weeding people out on the basis of party membership, and building a super ID database. If someone like the BNP get elected somewhere, what’s to stop them going into this database and weeding out people that are likely to oppose them.

    November 21st, 2008 at 14:12

  7. Richard A says:

    A police officer can not be a member of the BNP, however they can be a member of the SNP, INP, WNP

    BNP = British Nationalist Party
    SNP = Scottish Nationalist Party
    INP = Irish Nationalist Party
    WNP = Welsh Nationalist Party

    So if this officer is doing his job then where is the problem?

    November 21st, 2008 at 15:30

  8. Tony F says:

    Much as I do not like the BNP, or any if it’s supporters, it is not an illegal organisation. Perhaps police whom are ‘members’ of the ACPO should be sacked for total, blinkered uselessness.

    ACPO=Arse covering political officers?

    November 21st, 2008 at 18:16

  9. twining says:

    Richard A, are any of the above apart from the BNP anti Islamic?

    There is an old Irish saying which goes like this, “Keep your friends close, but keep you enemies closer still.”

    Let’s see what comes out of the woodwork now with the BNP.

    November 21st, 2008 at 18:27

  10. Richard A says:

    twining… whilst the others may not be anti Islamic they are rascist.

    BNP are not rascist towards Islam as Islam is not a race, more a cult/religeon.

    November 21st, 2008 at 20:02

  11. Civ_In_The_City says:

    The police service doesn`t mind being politicised at all, it`s wholly committed to political correctness, which I read is descended from Marxist socialist thinking. Someone on Five Live today pointed out that Stalin killed more people in the war than Hitler.

    So while I can see them not wanting to employ people who are signed up members of a group with declared racial intolerances or which advocates violence I actually find the politics they do support to be equally as abhorrent and destructive.

    The NuLabour experiment is what I`m talking about. We are seeing more and more examples of it`s lunatic attitude in the papers every day. Fortunately I am seeing more and more people standing up and shouting about it. Roll on the general election.

    November 21st, 2008 at 20:14

  12. twining says:

    Richard A, I don’t follow politics that much so I wasn’t aware that the others are racist. If that’s the case then the question is, what are they going to do with colleagues that are members of these? Islam is not a cult. It’s a religion, a faith.

    November 21st, 2008 at 20:44

  13. Plodnomore says:

    All any officer named on that list has to say is, “Prove that I am a member of the BNP.” As stated above, the list was obtained by dubious means and in a criminal court would not be allowed as evidence. As also mentioned above, who can say that the list has not been ‘amended’. Only the person who lifted it and I doubt that he or she would be willing to step forward and claim it has not been altered. As odious as the BNP is, how is it different from the Communist Party or the Socialist Workers Party, both of which are racist, divisive organisations? The answer could be that because so many members of this current Government, and possibly mnore than a few Chief Constables, are either ex members or have personal or professional affilitations, it is OK to be a card carrying member. How about any of the various Islamic groups in this country, which have shown they are anti anyone who is not a Muslim, with a special hatred for Judaism, or even SHAC? I long for the day that some disgruntled ex member decides to print that membership list. Fortunately I had long retired before anyone knew I was a member of the Dr Who Appreciation Society.

    November 21st, 2008 at 21:37

  14. ted says:

    “twining… whilst the others may not be anti Islamic they are rascist.”

    SNP etc racist? I don’t think so. Whether Scotland should be independent or not is a matter of opinion. Believing that it should does not make you a racist.

    That’s a bit like saying that every other nation which has achieved independence like India, Ukraine, Norway etc is a racist country. Nationalialism is a political argument not a racist argument.

    November 21st, 2008 at 23:09

  15. Blueknight says:

    civ in the city
    A bit of trivia.
    The Nazis killed 6,000,000. Stalin managed about 20,000,000.
    Turkey managed 1,000,000 Armenians in 1915 and the fact that this was soon forgotten by the rest of the world gave Hitler the confidence to massacre the jews.
    The British ‘invented’ the concentration camp during the Boer War
    Approx.3500 Indians joined the Waffen SS

    November 22nd, 2008 at 04:56

  16. 200 says:


    that’s funny because if you are nationalist English, you are deemed, de facto, to be racist.

    November 22nd, 2008 at 09:07

  17. twining says:

    Woah, I never said the SNP are racist, I was simply repeating what Richard A said. There is a fine line between nationalism, patriotism and racism. The BNP hides behind racism come on….Don’t tell me you all didn’t see the secret camera filming what Griffin says?

    November 22nd, 2008 at 16:38

  18. Civ_In_The_City says:

    Blueknight, thanks for the info. That, and recent details of white slavery certainly give a different slant to the ‘history’ we take for granted. A question of collective selective memory.

    None of those figures can justify any other, things shouldn`t get to that stage in the first place if we are a truly civilised species.

    November 22nd, 2008 at 20:14

  19. MarkUK says:

    If a political party is legal, then it must be legal for everyone – including police officers. If an officer then uses his/her position to further the aims of the party or if they let their party philosophy change the way they do their duty, then disciplinary action must follow.

    If not, then simply leave them alone.

    November 22nd, 2008 at 23:28

  20. ted says:

    Sorry. Meant to quote the remark by Richard A. Missed out the
    “Richard A said” at the start. I know it wasn’t your comment,.

    November 23rd, 2008 at 00:30

  21. ted says:

    200 said “if you are nationalist English, you are deemed, de facto, to be racist.”

    But “racist” is sometimes used as a badge by people to avoid dealing with an argument and to close down debate.

    Also perhaps because outside of football tournaments the Union Jack has been appropriated by the BNP as their badge.

    November 23rd, 2008 at 00:37

  22. 200 says:

    I quite agree.It’s also used by people who wish to avoid sometimes unpleasant truths.

    November 23rd, 2008 at 02:04

  23. twining says:

    But what when racism does exist, and that is the ugly truth? but we don’t want tob hear that truth.

    November 23rd, 2008 at 18:42

  24. Plodnomore says:

    Is the BPA racist? To be a full member, with voting rights, one has to be black – or a race deemed to be connected with one’s blackness, such as Chinese, Malaysian, Indian, Pakistani, etc – in my county force, it was open to ANYONE to join the BPA but if not black then only as an associate member with no voting rights. I know of a colleague, whose name was Black, though he did not qualify as ‘Black’ for the purposes of the Association, who was only allowed Associate membership. If this is not divisive then what is? As the progeny of a mixed marriage I declined membership of the BPA despite “the brothers” assertions that it was necessary if I wanted to to retreive equality. The danger with such organisations is that, unless oneis careful, ‘equality’ is soon replaced by ‘superiority’ – the recent antics of Ghaffur and Dizaei are an example. I have never regretted following the words of Marx (Groucho nor Karl) in not wishing to join the kind of organisation that would have me as a member.
    200 – good blog which could run and run.

    November 23rd, 2008 at 21:17

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