July 29th, 2009

More Arse about Face

Posted in The Job - Comment by 200

As well as blogging every single day I’ve been instrumental in others blogging lately, Hero Police & Tough Judges (a reasonably anti-police blog) was struck to write a post this month based on a comment I made on his website & Twining was so moved to post something in regards to yesterday’s post about Pc Grewel.

Bless Twining, as with some posts over there I read them & I’m still not entirely sure what he’s saying. I’ve read this or two or three times, I think he’s putting a view in support of the officer who has taken the Met to tribunal for compensation & won (partly).

I think Twining is saying that you shouldn’t compare having the piss ripped out of a black person with having an arm blown off in a war zone. Yep, they are certainly different kettles of fish but at the end of the day you start off with a perceived wrong and end up with money to put some right to that wrong. It is therefore entirely probably that people will draw parallels & see that if having your feelings hurt is worth some financial compensation, having a leg blown off should have compensation commensurate with the damage done on a similar scale. Currently, this does not seem to be the case in modern Britain.

I’ve also had some further random thoughts on this level of money-grabbing (and yes, I do see such cases as an easy way for some people to make cash.)

There is no personable responsibility, we all know this, in modern Britain. So if you go for a job which you cannot cope with, the answer is to sue the employer for failing to protect you against your own inability to extend yourself to the requirements of the job. Not everyone can cope with every job or task, yet our blind slavishness to the ideal of equality fails to recognise that actually, we are not all equal. I cannot jump very high. I do not demand that I be given a job to jump over tall objects when there are sufficient people with jumping skills to do the job.

I’m assuming the ‘perpetrators’ in PC Grewel’s case were white. I’d want to know how many black, Asian or other ethnic minority students have ever been in these people’s charge & how long they have been doing the job. If they are racist & religionist, why hasn’t this come to light before now? Surely a racist is a racist & will behave in the alleged way, how have they been hiding it before PC Grewel came on the scene?

It’s interesting to note that the officer brought 17 separate charges against the Met, all but two were dismissed.  You’d wonder at the efficacy of bringing a criminal trial with a result of 15 not guiltys & 2 guiltys. The tribunal found she was subjected to unlawful racial victimisation when she was told others laughed at her behaviour during training. Sorry, but a 5 figure compensation sum for being told others laughed at her is just crazy. It might not be the kindest behaviour but surely asking them to stop would be a whole lot cheaper than a court case & thousands of pounds compensation.

The officer went on to make a complaint at a different training centre against different staff, which formed part of her case at tribunal.

The money paid to the officer does not come from the Metropolitan Police, it comes from the tax-payers of London. If she gets £10,000 that’s £10,000  extra the tax payers will have to find, or £10,000 less value they will get for their hard-earned tax dollars. Wouldn’t it be a wonderful gesture if the recipient said, actually, it’s not about the money & gave it back to London’s tax-payers?

I once worked with an Asian lad. He was fucking useless. How the hell he got through the interview I’ll never know. He could not write a legible English paragraph, he had no bottle & he did not learn despite being taught several times by different people. He was not going to make a copper as long as he had a hole in his arse.

While several white officers in the same division were asked to leave under the failing to make the required standard, this officer was transferred to another division & given further chances, where he was found to be just as useless. Eventually he was asked to resign. He took the force to an industrial tribunal on the grounds of racial discrimination. Fortunately, the tribunal agreed that he was sacked because he was rubbish not because he was Asian.

It cuts both ways. There are some racist officers, there are also some Black & Asian officers who do not deserve free cash during the course of their employment.

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  1. Linda Baki says:

    Good morning 200, an excellent post. You have hit the nail on the head. Now, who will close this loophole ? The colour of ones skin should be of no importance but Asian people are making it so in England because of this attitude. Those that had no opinion one way or the other are becoming to dislike Asians . If this is allowed to continue and the police take the word of a foreigner everytime he or she shouts racist against an english person withoout a witness present. Sooner or later there is going to be trouble. The incident I spoke of yesterday is not a one off, it happens often, too often. It has reached a point where my sister lives and it is a good area that the british police are hated for this attitude. Free speech is no longer allowed and a whiteman it appears is a liar when shove comes to push.

    July 30th, 2009 at 10:08

  2. voyeur36 says:

    I agree. As a black man I feel there is still work to be done to ensure equality, but some of these cases actually make things harder for people of colour. Oppurtunities should be open to everyone based on ability and performance and when you make a decision based on race it makes the majority (white) feel ill will towards the minority(black. I’m probably off on a different tangent here. I’m sure there are white officers who are slighted all the time because they are white. But they have no way to complain really for fear of being accused of being racist. That I hate. That then makes them start drifting towrds being racist because they then start associating these pricks with decent black or asian people. Then again, i dont know the details of the case. (2cents worth)

    July 30th, 2009 at 13:06

  3. exmetwps says:

    Back in 1982 I was a raw recruit at Hendon when a mean ‘ol drill Sergeant yelled at me for not having bulled my shoes sufficiently. I’m sure I heard some of my classmates tittering in the background. On another occasion, during a mock accident scenerio I asked the witness if he had been on the “sidewalk”. Not only did the whole class laugh but the instructor did too! As a Canadian female I’ve been probably sitting on a lawsuit all these years. No doubt they have now outlawed these barbaric practices of yelling and having to bull boots. Mind you, now they’ll have to forbid laughing too.

    July 30th, 2009 at 16:03

  4. Civ_In_The_City says:

    Ah, the old ‘black’ vs ‘white’ debate again. It is scandalous that after all these years, all the efforts by so many people, the campaigning, the landmark test cases in the courts, the efforts of people like the Equalities commission and Trevor Philips, the massive efforts by the police service in response to MacPherson, the journalistic efforts of the BBC and the Guardian, and all New Labours promises of even-handed multi-culturalism. After all that, and STILL white people don`t have the same rights as ethnic minorities.

    I advocate a peaceful civil struggle. It may take many years, even generations, but one day we will have the right to apply for a job even if the quotas are allocated to other groups. We will be allowed to employ people on merit and ability and not because of the colour of their skin. And we will be able to sack people if they are useless without fear of persecution or prosecution.

    I have a dream!

    July 30th, 2009 at 18:37

  5. Sergeant Twining says:

    Linda, you make some outrageous remarks. The British police have been tackling racism against Asian folk for some time, and years ago racial assaults were never reported, we just took it. Ask yourselves why you so dislike Asian people? In the 70′s it was the word Paki? How many Asians are in top jobs? The word of the foreigner, FFS, we are British.

    July 30th, 2009 at 18:48

  6. Sergeant Twining says:

    200, I am not putting the view forward that Grewal should have gone to tribunal and won. What I am saying is mental anguish caused by emotional acts of racism can be very nasty over time. It’s malicious and it can hurt, but you don’t see the hurt. I agree with you, in support of armed service personnel, they should be treated much much better. 200 as a colleague I am moved by what you say, I don’t know Grewal.

    July 30th, 2009 at 18:56

  7. Tony F says:

    We were all individually ‘beasted’ at some time during our basic training. You always remember yours, but rarely remember anyone else’s humiliation on the parade square. I suspect that someone who couldn’t cut it, would feel they were getting more than someone else. Voyeur36 is absolutely correct, we also had that in the RAF. I had to (Well I was supposed to but I didn’t) Charge a junior airman because he was persistently late. Not just the odd 5 min either. He told me I was picking on him because he was Black!? No he was late, and absolutely useless. I don’t know what happened to him, he was posted shortly after that.

    July 30th, 2009 at 19:02

  8. MarkUK says:

    Mr Twining,

    Re Linda’s post, how would you know what the white majority feels? I don’t know what it is like to be black in a mostly white society so how can you possibly know how white people feel?

    If a white recruit is beasted by white trainers, that is bullying and should not be allowed. (In any job, beating has no place – it’s simply the strong ganging up on the weak.) However, when a brown or black recruit (NB some Asians and Africans are white) is beasted, that becomes racism and warrants a five-figure payout.

    The race relations industry has done a lot of damage to race relations. Whilst only a few bigots would want to go back to the “No Blacks, No Irish, No dogs” situation of the 1950s, racism whether real or imagined now seems to be a more hienous offence than rape or murder.

    July 30th, 2009 at 22:55

  9. voyeur36 says:

    @MarkUK. I disagree with yoou in a way about the ‘beasting’. Training is supposed to prepare you for the real world. I’m not advocating outright bullying or racism, but if recruits are exposed to unpleasant things, it is for the sole reason to make them cope with what they will have to deal with on the job. If they cant take the ‘abuse’ and rise above it, how are they going to deal with having to face these scenarios for real and remain objective, calm and focused.

    July 31st, 2009 at 02:11

  10. Hibbo says:

    Twining; please point out even a single hint of racism in this case. From what I’ve read there weren’t even any allegations of racist behaviour.

    Hypothetically speaking of course, if a police recruit was shit, his/her trainers were annoyed at their shitness, their colleagues had a laugh about their shitness, but the recruit happened to be an ethnic minority, would this be racist?

    July 31st, 2009 at 03:04

  11. Sergeant Twining says:


    I wouldn’t know what the white majority feel like. Just as you might know what it’s like to feel racism. There is no sugggestion in this case that Grewal couldn’t cut it, there is evidence that she was picked on by her trainer and her peer were involved. When you pick on someone as a group it’s pretty easy then to try and get rid of them.

    WTF is this about? “If this is allowed to continue and the police take the word of a foreigner everytime he or she shouts racist against an english person.” We don’t need witnesses to prove racism. I agree some people will use the card, but not all Asians do this. And this is no reason to dislike all Asian people. So all Asian people are foreign.

    Hibbo have you read the tribunal findings?

    July 31st, 2009 at 09:10

  12. Sergeant Twining says:

    Mark, there’s beasting, and theres making it personal. I understand beasting.

    Hibbo, let’s assume Grewal was discriminated against because she is Asian? Is it OK to pick on someone because they are different, and purely because of their skin colour?

    July 31st, 2009 at 09:35

  13. Linda Baki says:

    Good morning Sergeant Twining, there is no where in my post that I say I dislike Asian people. I am pointing out a FACT that in the area where my sister lives there have been incidents where Asian people are playing the race card to get their way..The incident I spoke about a couple of days ago’ was from a French lady who seems to like wasting police time by telling lies about people calling her names when this is not true.The police ALWAYS take her side and say that racism is taken very seriously then frogmarched the VICTIM to the police station, kept there for several hours, cautioned and then left to make his own way home. There are never witnesses to this ladies claims yet time and time again she is belived because she knows the police are on her side ‘ because she is not english. Nothing to do with colour…

    July 31st, 2009 at 10:33

  14. Sergeant Twining says:

    Morning Linda, I have asked, “ask yourselves why”, the inference being drawn is that clearly some people dislike Asian people, what all Asian people. You talk about foriegn people as opposed to English people…

    July 31st, 2009 at 11:55

  15. Civ_In_The_City says:

    Pop over to the Civitas website and have a read of their freely downloadable pamphlet called “We’re (Nearly) All Victims Now”. The subtitle is “How political correctness is undermining our liberal culture”. Chapter titles such as “Why modern victimhood is not compatible with liberalism”, “Victim status and legal equality” and “Impact on democracy”.

    These are exactly the issues at the heart of what is being discussed here. And why are there forces at work to oust Trevor Phillips just because he says things like “The term ‘institutional racism’ is no longer helpful”. There is a huge industry working hard to ensure that we are never truly equal.

    July 31st, 2009 at 18:15

  16. Hibbo says:

    “Is it OK to pick on someone because they are different, and purely because of their skin colour?”

    Of course it’s bloody not Twining, and don’t be so ridiculous.

    It IS however OK to think that someone is shit at their job, regardless of their skin colour.

    You seem to fail to understand that ‘unfavourable’ things happen to people of all colours and creeds, just because someone is a minority; it doesn’t automatically mean that every single negative thing that might happen to them is because of that.

    get a grip.

    July 31st, 2009 at 21:14

  17. Sergeant Twining says:

    Oh dear.

    August 1st, 2009 at 15:08

  18. Hibbo says:

    Yes. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

    August 1st, 2009 at 18:50

  19. Sergeant Twining says:

    Hibbo, is there any room in your thoughts that others might have a point too?

    August 3rd, 2009 at 12:35

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