June 15th, 2009

Priorities

Posted in The Job - Comment by 200

Headline footage today of officers in Nottingham trying to to detain someone who they have tasered. I saw this as one of the main stories on the BBC 6 O’clock News this evening & then watched the footage further into the news programme.

This is a man who caused so much trouble that bouncers at a nightclub had to call police. On arrival the ‘victim’ assaulted a police officer to such an extent that they were GBH’d and put in hospital. Other officers deemed it necessary to taser the man & one was seen punching him.

Clearly, what they should have been doing was allowing the male his civil right to GBH any other officer too. Strangely, the footage of the male’s violence pre-arrest either wasn’t recorded or hasn’t been released. Funny how we rarely see footage of violent thugs GBH’ing police officers but see the resulting ‘police brutality’.

I saw this on a day when the death of a police officer serving his community in Kent appears to have gone by with just a sideline on the BBC News website. 26-year-old PC Philip Pratt was struck by a vehicle & killed while trying to put a diversion on at the scene of an earlier RTC.

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20 comments

  1. Officer dibble says:

    Strangly enough just got back late from a few days away and turned on to Sky news.The usual 15 minute cycle they have starts with the security /riot poce opening fire on peaceful demonstrators in Iran and the next ‘story’ was the Nottingham officers struggling with ONE f***wit on the street.

    Our rules of engagement mean we spend our time policing the ‘night time economy’ trying Home office approved compliance techniques on non compliant violent drunk/drug induced idiots.

    The ensuing rolling around on the floor ‘brawl’ never looks good whilst we try and do it.

    The loss of life an officer just trying to do his basic day to day role never was an issue to raise the pulse of a News editor unless the ‘I saw Elvis in a cappucino froth’ item fell through.

    June 16th, 2009 at 01:22

  2. Paul says:

    This, of course, works both ways, for example the mysterious non working cameras at Stockwell and the ever willingness of the ‘Service’ to spin and, well, lie.

    If you live by PR you die by PR.

    Personally I’d sack all the press officers in the Police and replace them with frontliners. (and in every other public sector job)

    June 16th, 2009 at 06:29

  3. Piers says:

    Fair enough to taser him, but is there really any reason to (excuse the pun) kick him when he’s down?

    June 16th, 2009 at 08:07

  4. Chris says:

    @Piers: the punches were (probably) to give the guy a ‘dead arm’, just like you used to back in the playground, so that he’s easier to control and cuff. It looks bad on TV, but it’s actually a minimum necessary force technique.

    The multiple tasings though… I thought there were protocols against that for elf’n'safety reasons?

    June 16th, 2009 at 08:26

  5. benno says:

    As per the g20 trial by media for the cops, guilty of excessive force in the medias eyes with a no understnding of the realities of policing and justifiable use of force and b again non of the circs around the males actions prior to the struggle shown. It seems to me the media are just out to portray the police as violent every time something like this occurs. And meanwhile they ignore the death of an officer on duty. Gets right on my t#?ts. RIP Pc Pratt.
    @Chris the taser itself can be used multiple times if required. It would be up to the officer deploying it to justify it.

    June 16th, 2009 at 09:18

  6. Joe says:

    Usual media rubbish. I can’t see what the fuss is about – all looked more than acceptable use of force in the circumstances.

    Maybe those complaining should see what happens if they try the same games as this guy got up to in Europe or the US.

    June 16th, 2009 at 10:32

  7. deej says:

    @Benno,

    Well if the public can be judged, and frequently are, after the fact in the cold light of day then so can the cops. Shall we just say that if it looks unreasonable, in said cold light of day, then it probably was, for all parties?

    June 16th, 2009 at 11:13

  8. john says:

    Dunno ’bout this, noted ElReg:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/16/times_blogger_anonymity/

    Looks like the sun is after nightjack

    June 16th, 2009 at 15:22

  9. john says:

    Sorry, the times….not too different !

    June 16th, 2009 at 15:23

  10. sam says:

    it was police brutality and excessive use of force, it was dangerous and could have been lethal. And those coppers were lucky they didn’t get their arses handed to them on individual platters by the crowd. Trouble causer or not, hospitalisation or not, those pigs had no patience and preferred to stick to the violent option even when the man was clearly staying down. He was drunk you idiots, he wasn’t going to listen to you, you could have given him some more shots of vodka to knock him out with a smile on his face maybe, I’m sure that would have cost less in time, effort, manpower and injury leave.. He would have calmed down if you had any air of respectability about you, it’s more likely the one who ended up in A&E just went in with the Strongarm tactic like you bullies always do when I get stopped. Maybe if you learn some real arm locking skills rather than use the caveman like deadarm trick that doesn’t work, you might gain some respect from the public you “serve” (bum) every day. Better still, learn how to treat everyone with courtesy and respect no matter what their crime. It’s none of your personal business so you can leave the swearing and anger for the families of any victims and retribution for the courts, your not judge dredds.
    Officer Joe, when you get your nuts tasered at the end of what should have been a normal night out, you’ll have a different opinion. He was on the floor BEFORE they tasered and punched him. This really is the thin end of a very big wedge. More changes are going to be inflicted on the public and before long there’ll be supermax prisons housing cannabis users, those who download movies music and games and those who whistleblow against the establishment amongst other victimless and thought crimes we’ll surely commit. Unless there are real, substantive changes to the current order, things will get worse for average you under the conservative government.

    June 17th, 2009 at 00:38

  11. 200 says:

    Nurse….Nurse….NURSE!!…Sam’s out of bed!

    Do you feel better for that now, sammy?

    June 17th, 2009 at 02:07

  12. rafanon says:

    Sam, Interesting perspective. Complete bo***cks but interesting nontheless.

    If abusing revellers, abusing and assaulting door staff and then abusing the police is a “normal night out” then i’m afraid he (and by proxy you) deserve all the Tasers he gets.

    June 17th, 2009 at 08:53

  13. Joe says:

    Hi Sam

    He was on the floor after being tasered once (and you’ll note still fighting); in the opinion of the officer on the spot (and that officer will face being questioned on the legitimacy of his decision by those with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight) he required a second jolt after he was down to subdue him, which is what you see in the film clip.

    Actually it is a demonstration of the ability of an aggressive person high on drink and/or drugs to keep fighting regardless of the punishment they have taken. There’s lots of research on this and it can be very, very difficult to subdue someone in this state even if you’re not hidebound by minimum force rules (one of the reasons for the popularity of larger caliber pistols amongst law enforcement personel in the US where .38 and 9mm just wasn’t stopping assailants hopped up on dope and drink). IMHO everything in the clip was all within the scope of reasonable force. As to justification see rafanon post above.

    June 17th, 2009 at 21:56

  14. Jack says:

    Hi sam,

    I don’t think the Police are going to gain the respect of the public by buying violent hooligans “a couple of shots of vodka” and letting them pass out. It’s irresponsible service of alcohol for a start, and even a bartender shouldn’t do that.

    If someone gets violent and hits a copper, or anyone else. Then they are going to get the rough trip to the back of the van. If you or anyone else wants to go around punching people and expect the police to protect your dignity, then you’re quite frankly, an absolute moron.

    June 25th, 2009 at 07:49

  15. sam says:

    Officer Jack, why won’t they get respect? Do coppers have to be violent and authoratitive for that? If they’re getting him legless through drink it’s immoral, but it’s moral to shock him several times or until he’s dead, whichever comes first? I don’t even condone drinking and I think my idea would work wonders for relations.

    The public isn’t getting more dangerous, the police are. Rough trip to the back of the van; fair enough, but 50,000 volt shocks 2-3 times along with digs for kicking off with the bouncer and then “failing to obey”? are you for real?

    Officer Joe, imho, you haven’t been tasered for failing to obey a command yet. Tasers aren’t just being used on violent criminals and drunken thugs as youtube, liveleak and other prominent sites are showing every day. The simple act of telling a copper to do one might be enough to get you tasered. It’s already happening in other countries, only a matter of time before it’s commonplace here.

    Officer rafanon. Nothing justifies torture. NOTHING. You cannot make the excuse that he was drinking irresponsibly because drinking is an irresponsible act that is completely legitimate and supported by the UK Government. There is no safe amount of alcohol; drinkers will act in unpredictable ways, that is well known and well documented. What the Government did, was to pretty much deregulate the use of alchohol, so 24 hour drinking is now possible, thus creating more scenarios of drunken disorderly behaviour, trips to a&e, DUI and deaths. If he’s violent, he needs to be taken into a drying out clinic and helped, not tasered multiple times and punched.

    All you people know this is natural progression from justification for use against violent criminals and as a last resort to the first port of call in any incident that may or may not turn violent.. It’s already the case in America that average citizens who are simply disgruntled are tasered for ‘failing to obey’, that coppers are using it if they’re having a bad day and sometimes they just want to pull the thing out and fire because they don’t like you.

    Times reports on 02/09/2007, ‘Police have been given the go-ahead to use Taser stun guns against children. The relaxing of restrictions on the use of the weapons comes despite warnings that they could trigger a heart attack in youngsters.’

    The Register reports taser gun usage soaring: ‘the real figure for Taser use across the UK since last year is not the Home Office headliner of 252 uses with 31 stunnings. Buried in the relevant pdfs, we find that there were 705 usages from last July to February, including 155 discharges with barbs fired and a further 33 “drive stun” shockings. Suspects were shocked 27 per cent of the time when Tasers were drawn.’

    Either all your commentators work for the police and are completely lost to humane acts, or all your all deluded into believing the country is a much more violent place than it was 20 years ago and that taser use is therefore justified to deal with the greater threat, which it isn’t and isn’t. Tasers are dangerous weapons, full stop, use on that civilian was unjustified, full stop. Use on any civilian is unjustified, full stop.

    The Full Stop campaign should be extended to protect victims of such State terrorism and teach you lot a thing or two about the realities of the world around you.

    officer 200: Your just stupid aren’t you? You must work for GiMP.

    June 28th, 2009 at 21:22

  16. 200 says:

    sammy,

    I may be stupid but I know the difference between “your” and “you’re”.

    I love your oh so simplistic approach “If he’s violent, he needs to be taken into a drying out clinic and helped”. Unfortunately a pat on the head & a bit of friendly guidance doesn’t often work with extremely violent drunks & you seem to have conveniently forgotten that this was not just a simple drunk, this was someone who used so much violence on a police officer that they were GBH’d, yes Grievous Bodily Harm, not a friendly slap round the face. I love it when people who don’t have to put their own arse on the line instruct others on the best way to deal with violent people.

    Perhaps you’d care to provide links to these hundreds of misuse of Taser vids which appear “every day” maybe the ones which have appeared in the last 14 days in the UK would be a start…off you go.

    June 29th, 2009 at 01:44

  17. sam says:

    post my last comment, I cannot be bothered writing it again.

    July 6th, 2009 at 01:00

  18. 200 says:

    I’ll take that as an inability to prove your point through lack of evidence, then.

    By my reckoning there must have been 8 new videos of officers misusing taser since your comment, not to mention the hundreds of previous ones, you having trouble finding them?

    July 6th, 2009 at 02:27

  19. sam says:

    so you didn’t publish my last commentary then?

    July 21st, 2009 at 02:54

  20. 200 says:

    and guess what sam spam…. I ain’t publishing your last one either. 3 potential examples of misuse of taser (in the UK?) is proof of your evidence appearing “daily” is it, tsk tsk, must do better.

    now run along & pollute someone else’s blog with your filth.

    July 21st, 2009 at 15:53

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